Who is/are William Thetford's Father/Parents?

If you've found this blog by searching Google for the Thetford family, you may have noticed that I begin my Thetford line with William Thetford and Permelia Sturdivant.  This is because, through all the research I've done up to this point, I've yet to find proof as to whom the true father of my particular William is.

William was a common name in the Thetford family, especially around the time of my William's birth, which was is the 1820s.  But, from the early 1800s to the 1820s, there seem to be a few William Thetfords, whose parentage is a bit confused.

1850 Census for William Thetford - Clark County, Arkansas

Now, based on the 1850 Census for Clark County, Arkansas (above), we can clearly see William and Permelia Thetford living with their children.  William says he is 27, which would make his birth year around 1823.  Also, their oldest child is seven-years-old, which tells us William and Permelia probably married at least seven years previous to this census.  According to Mississippi Marriage archives from 1800-1911, the two actually wed on 1 December 1841, when William was around 17 years old.  Previous to this event, it becomes difficult to tell where exactly William lived, and with whom.

In the 1840 Census for Warren County, Mississippi, there IS a William G Thetford living there.  But this William Thetford was born 12 December 1812 and married Matilda Flowers on 8 December 1830 in Copiah County, Mississippi.  In addition, this William Thetford died on 26 December 1841 in Warren County, MS.

In addition, there is a William M Thetford, who was born 17 March 1809, and died 25 November 1880 in Panola County, MS.  This William Thetford married a Sarah Harriet Minnie Littlefield in Gibson County, Tennessee on 19 October 1828.


Now, according to Thetford researcher, Elaine Randall English:

"...a John Thetford DID give permission for his son William to marry Matilda Flowers and the only John Thetford on the area records appears to be this one...so circumstantial evidence would stand good towards some belief that this is the correct line."

This would seem to prove that John Thetford is the father of William G Thetford.

However, Thetford researcher, James (Jim) M Templeton had this to say say on a Thetford forum in 2008:

"Wiley, Henry and Joe were sons of William Thetford and Permelia Sturdivant.
William Thetford was born c1823 in Kentucky, son of John Thetford and Lydia (unknown).....
Regards, James Templeton, Saint Amant, Louisiana"

As I have not seen Templeton's proof, I am unaware which of these researchers may be correct as to the true parents of the William Thetford who married Permelia Sturdivant.


Names for the possible father(s) of these various William Thetfords include:
1.  Gabriel Thetford - Son of Simon Thetford, grandson of Walter Thetford.
2.  John Thetford - Son of Simon Thetford, grandson of Walter Thetford.
3.  Josias Thetford - Son of Walter Thetford.
4.  Josias/Josiah Thetford - Son of Simon Thetford, grandson of Walter Thetford.
5.  Walter Thetford - Son of Josias Thetford, nephew of Simon Thetford, grandson of Walter Thetford.


All of these Williams seem to belong to the same Thetford family, which makes all of them descendents of Walter and Rebecca Thetford., however, I would love to know the true parents of the William Thetford who married Permelia Sturdivant.  If you have any further information, or would like to add to the discussion, please do so in the comments section.
 

Random Thought for the Day

It's strange how, often, when you start out tracing your family tree, you begin with one particular line, thinking, "I'd really like to know just how far back I can follow this line."  And no matter how far you're able to get tracing grandparent after grandparent, it suddenly becomes clear that the more you know about each aunt and uncle, each cousin, niece and nephew, the more you REALLY start to know the particular family you're researching.

This is never more true than when you're looking at a census record for your great-great grandparents household in 1870 and suddenly, there are several people living there whose names you're unfamiliar with and whose surnames don't match anything you've ever read in relation to your family.  "So, who are they?  They don't appear to be servants or boarders.  There is nothing telling me who these people are.  Why did my gg-grandparents have random people living with them?"

Well, the more you research, the more you know.  "Ah, I see that a sister of my great-grandmother married someone with that surname, and though neither of them are listed as living in the household, these three people with the same surname must be their children."  And, further research proves the theory to be true.  It's the little mysteries like that that keep things interesting.  From such a record you can surmise that the parents of these children must have died sometime between the previous census and the one you're looking at, thus gaining a bigger perspective on what life must have been like at a particular point on the timeline of your ancestors.

What are some little mysteries you've come across in your research?

James Oscar Norman's Parents

When I first started my own family tree, I figured I was going to be able to trace the Norman family name back quite a ways.  I mean, "Norman?"  Hello?!  It MUST go back to the Norman Invasion of England in 1066, right?  We must be able to trace our roots back HUNDREDS of years to the Vikings!

...ahem...

Well... maybe.

But, so far I haven't been able to take it any further back than my great-great-great grandfather, James Oscar Norman, who was born in 1851 in Missouri... or... somewhere around there.

The biggest mystery with him is simply, who were his parents?  Now, because there are a couple of census records that indicate that J.O. was born in Missouri, there are people online who found a James Norman, who was born in Missouri around 1851, and assumed it was the correct one.  Well, I feel like, based on several pieces of evidence, that this James Norman is NOT James Oscar Norman, but instead, is James Erastus "Ezra" Norman.

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First, in both the 1850 (as seen below) and 1860 Censuses (which I don't have available for upload), George Washington and Eliza (Clay) Norman (the couple many online believe to be the parents of James Oscar Norman) are listed as him being from Virginia and her being from Tennessee.  This follows in line with the information James Ezra Norman provides on his own censuses in later decades. 

1850 Census for George Washington and Eliza Norman - Polk County, MO

The 1850 Census for Polk County, Missouri, as seen above, shows:

George W Norman - 32
Eliza Norman - 26
William Norman - 8
Mary J Norman - 6
Jonathan C Norman - 4
Virginia A  Norman - 0

(James Norman is not yet born)
 
  
And the 1860 Census for Polk County, Missouri shows:

GW Norman - 43
Eliza Norman - 36
William Norman - 19
Mary Norman - 17
Jonathen Norman - 13
Virginia Norman -11
James Norman - 8
Elnora Norman - 0


In 1870, James Ezra Norman and the rest of his family are living in Ralls County, Missouri.  (I do not have a copy of the 1870 Census available for upload.)

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Next, in both 1880 and 1900, James Oscar Norman lists both of his parents (whether accurate or not) as having come from Kentucky, while in 1880, James Ezra lists his parents as being from Virginia and Tennessee and in 1900 as being from Kentucky and Tennessee.

1880 Census for James Oscar Norman - Jack County, TX

As you can see, the above 1880 Census for Jack County, Texas shows:

James Norman - 29
Josiphean Norman - 24
Manirvey Norman - 8
James Norman - 6
John Norman - 2
 
  
Whereas, the 1880 Census for Ralls, Missouri shows (I do not have a copy of the actual census available for upload):

James Norman - 28
Mahala Norman - 22
Fasti Norman - 1m
Lena Norman - 9
 
 
***  Due to a fire in 1921, over 99% of the United States 1890 Census records were destroyed and no longer exist.  ***
 

1900 Census for James Oscar Norman - Jack County, TX

And the 1900 Census for Jack County, Texas, as seen above, shows:

James O Norman - 49
Josephine Norman - 45

George B Norman - 17
William L Norman -14
Minnie V Norman - 12
Jessie W  Norman - 6
 
 

1900 Census for James Ezra Norman - Ralls County, MO

Whereas, the 1900 Census for Ralls, Missouri, as seen above, shows:

J E Norman - 48
Hallie Norman - 52
Fred Norman - 20
Leslie Norman - 15
Marion Norman - 11
James Norman - 10
Orion Norman - 6
Oral Norman - 6

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Arguments for why George Washington and Eliza Norman are the parents of James Ezra Norman, rather than James Oscar Norman:
-  Clearly, based on the 1880 and 1900 Censuses these are two separate James Normans.  In 1900 we see each of their middle initials: "James O" and "J E". 
-  We see that usually James Oscar Norman's birth year is listed as 1851, whereas James Ezra Norman's birth year is usually cited as 1852.
-  We see parents: George Washington Norman and Eliza (Clay) Norman living Polk County, Missouri in 1850 and 1860, and then Ralls County, Missouri in 1870 and 1880, where James Ezra Norman continues living with his wife, Mahala.  Meanwhile, James Oscar Norman is living in Jack County, Texas with his wife.
-  We see James Oscar Norman list his parents as being from Kentucky and Kentucky, whereas James Ezra Norman tends to list his as being from Virginia and Tennessee, which are the same places George Washington and Eliza Norman tend to list themselves as having come from.

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All of this, of course, does not mean that I am 100% correct.  But for me, as much as I'd love to keep tracing my Norman line back to the Vikings, there seems to be enough proof against George Washington and Eliza Norman, that I am going to continue my search for the true parents of James Oscar Norman.


If you have any further proof for or against these potential parents, please let me know.  I am always open to all possibilities.

The Task of Staying Organized

When I first started researching my family tree, I almost immediately started finding information and documents, etc.  But then the problem became, how do I organize all this information?

I'm not an experienced genealogist, or at least I wasn't when I began my research; I do now have several years under my belt.  I don't have training or certification.  I've never officially been taught the proper way to lay everything out with sources etc.  So, I lay my information out in a way that best makes sense to me, and I think it works quite well.

First, I started logging all the information I found in an Excel spreadsheet.  Weird, I know.  But, it was the only way I felt like I could keep everything I was learning organized.  Organization is very important to me. Then, I started saving every piece of information and every document or picture I found that pertained to one of my ancestors.  One folder for each main surname of a family with sub-folders with other surnames.  I still like this way of organizing, actually.  And each file has a very specific name like "James Oscar Norman Mention in Jacksboro Gazette."  I don't want to have to open 15 different files before I find the right one.

Eventually, there came a point, though, when I had so much information I felt I had to start logging it all in a family tree website.  Those things surely exist for a reason, right?  I figured it was the natural step.  And I do like it.  But, truth be told, while the site keeps everything organized and it's easy enough to navigate, the more people I add, the more it feels like the site the site has control of me instead of the other way around... if that makes sense.  There's so much information spread out across so many people, I have to go to each individual person to access a specific bit of information.

Ideally, I would really prefer all my information in one place, but until I figure out how to do that, I think I'm good.  How do you organize all the information you collect when researching your family tree?  Let me know in the comments.

Do Unto Others...

One of the first things I noticed when I began my research is how stingy some people can be with information.  Why put it out there that you have information, just to deny others the privilege of seeing it?  Personally, I find it more than a little odd.

On ancestry.com there are people with "private" family trees.  I think I understand this one.  It's very important to protect your privacy in this day and age.  You don't want to give anyone anything they could potentially use to steal your identity.  But, ancestry.com automatically sets living people to private.  If your parents, or even grandparents are deceased, but you don't want people knowing their names, etc., why not just put that they are still living?  They will be set to private, but people can still see the lines of your family that extend through history.  After all, most people researching their family tree are more interested in going backward than they are forward.

Pictures are my absolute favorite.  You just cannot beat being able to put a face with a name, so why hold them back?  I realize your great-great-great grandmother is YOURS, but it might be mine too.  And his.  And hers.  And his and his and hers too.  Show us yours and we'll show you ours.

I've also noticed people on message forums who are annoyed someone "stole" their work and didn't give them credit.  I get it.  Researching this stuff takes A LOT of time and patience.  A lot.  Really.  I feel your pain.  Of course you should be given credit, but hopefully you didn't only research your family tree to receive glory from your family and friends.  Surely you did all that work so you could feel confident about the true identity of your ancestors?  Well, no amount of "copying" can take that from you.  You did the work and you should feel proud that because of you, your family tree is well-sourced and out there for public use.  The work you did will help countless others find their ancestors.

I really appreciate the trees people have online, and the pictures, and information in general, because part of the fun of all this is the exchange of information.  And just like the Golden Rule teaches us, I believe the more willing you are to share with others, the more willing others will be to share with you.

Hello and Welcome!

Hello and welcome to my family tree site!  I'm not yet certain exactly what this site is going to be all about, but I wanted to create a place where, while I'm doing all of this research I can come and vent - genealogy research can be very frustrating at times, celebrate - it can also be EXTREMELY exciting, and reflect - sometimes researching your ancestry involves asking yourself (and probably everyone else around you) lots and lots of questions.

I have been researching my genealogy for around ten years now and over time, I hope to use these blogs to share with you my various findings.  Hopefully, eventually there will be enough information listed here that you may find something useful or interesting that pertains to your own family history.  I would really enjoy it if this could become a place for distant relatives to get in touch.  I would love to exchange old photos and stories about our ancestors.  After all, if we go far enough back, my familial story is very likely yours too.  I welcome corrections and suggestions as well.  And if you see your name or a photo you would like removed, please let me know.

Putting together your own family's history is definitely a journey, but it is one well worth taking.  Thanks for joining me on mine.